The following interview with Sabrina Rodriguez of Finca Santa Marta in Guatemala was recorded in August 2024, in Berkeley CA. It has been transcribed and edited lightly for legibility here:
Stephanie:
Tell us a little bit about yourself, and what your favorite thing is in working in coffee.
Sabrina:
My name is Sabrina Rodriguez. I am the littlest daughter of Lillian and David Rodriguez, who are importers and coffee farmers from Guatemala, called Guatemala Santa Marta coffee. The thing I love the most about coffee is just meeting all the new people and how coffee brings people together from all sorts of places. And I really enjoy it.
Stephanie:
As a family business, growing your coffee farm, what are some aspects that you think the younger generation could help improve?
Sabrina:
Growing up as a family business, I really enjoy it, but I do think it is a little hard for people to kind of get that connection if you haven't been to a certain area, like Europe or even the United States — like some states I've never been to. So it's kind of hard to find those roasters and get those connections when you're trying to import your coffee or…
Stephanie:
You mean, networking for sales and such…
Sabrina:
Yes, going for the roasters, there's so many, and you just really don't know which one is gonna go more with what you were trying to show to the people as well. So it's really important to find those people that you like to work with and you believe in what they believe in, too.
Stephanie:
So really, because your family is unique in the sense that you do everything from actually farming, picking, managing the whole farm aspect, processing everything, exporting it out of Guatemala, then importing that into the United States, into the Bay Area, and then finding your own customers. You're in a unique situation where you have a personal perspective from the whole gamut, and so you're saying that kind of the hardest part for such a small business is really that last mile of finding the customers to sell the coffee?
Sabrina:
Yes, because the farming side, we've been doing it for so long, and then also it's easier when we're in Guatemala, just because we already know how it works, processing the coffee, but having that connection with people you just don't know. Because there's also other importers who've been in the business for longer. So it's just getting your foot in the door and having someone take a chance on your coffee as well.
Stephanie:
Right. Do you find it, are people, are roasters that you encounter like new folks that you encounter, do they seem open and willing to try the coffee and give you feedback, or is that even a challenge as well?
Sabrina:
Yeah, I love small roasters, honestly, just because, they really have more time and they have that connection more just because they're doing the work as well, a lot more, and it is a little harder with the bigger roasters, just because they don't really have that anymore. Someone else is usually covering it, and so they don't really have that connection anymore to the farmers and what someone really goes through. So, yeah, that's the difficult part of finding new people.
Stephanie:
So for your guys, you found more success targeting the extra small. But the hard part of that would be they might maybe not buying as much as a bigger roaster. So it's a little difficult when it's smaller, just because, like for us, since we're doing from seed to almost cup, the cost in the United States is a lot for the warehouse, and we love it, but it's just we know that time is ticking, so we want to make sure that we have everything ready before then.
Stephanie:
What do you think the younger generation might be able to have to help improve that situation? So maybe in the instance, do you feel maybe your generation might have a better hand at tackling approaching different rosters and such?
Sabrina:
Yes, I've noticed even with the expos, they're getting a little bit better. I mean, I love using the internet and apps, and they are helping a lot more socialize, because I can see how, even in the past, like if my dad was going to try to import it would be so much harder, just because there wasn't so much social media and so that will eventually help new generations in the future.
Stephanie:
Right. So your familiarity and level of comfort with the new technologies gives the younger generation maybe more of a leg up to help extend.
Sabrina:
Yes, and not be so scared as well to talk new, just because you know, you'll know a little bit of the background before you can speak to them. Usually, yeah, that helps a lot.
Stephanie:
Yeah, and it's easier to find stuff about them. Although we can snoop on everyone on the internet.
Sabrina:
That's true.
Stephanie:
So its sort of gets you something to start talking about out of the gate. That's what they say is learn a little bit about them. And it's easier — “oh we have this connection,” and start a conversation.
Sabrina:
And I really think that will help. Just social media helps so much. You can’t be at all places at once. And us being smaller, we're not able to have multiple people in other locations.
Stephanie:
Right, you have to go out and do all of it. You don't have a representative. You don't have the luxury of having a representative go to all the different events and all the things and then penetrate so you're doing a lot of the lag work. Yes, I can see that. What has your experience been like as you've entered into coffee, and how has that reception been for being a young woman stepping in?
Sabrina:
My experience the first year was really hard, just because I kind of had to learn a little more on my own. There's women who are in coffee, but they've been in coffee for years. So for me, it was kind of like, who do I talk to first? I don't even know who I should talk to so you learn by yourself and at a young age as well. I feel like some people were not sure if we would even be able to keep on coming back, if we were serious about it. And so that, those two obstacles were really hard and, but I wanted to express myself a little more, and I have been and I really enjoy it, actually.
Stephanie:
Do you feel just trying to kind of interpret your answer, you being the first face of your family's business people maybe acknowledge the credibility. Or, like reliability because they're so young, they maybe misjudge and think that…
Sabrina:
Yes, they think I've known this for years, or just known every step of the way. But it's not like that at all. Yeah, it's kind of learning on your own way as well, too. With experience.
Stephanie:
So, you're saying that they assume that you know a lot more as well?
Sabrina:
Yes, I get both.
I've experienced a similar thing with either the women in the industry have been in the industry for so long, so they're kind of like at this other level, and the rest of us feel like we have so much to catch up, but what we already know have to prove what we already know all the time, but are always self conscious about not knowing enough.
Stephanie:
I get that.
Sabrina:
But as the years go on working with my family, you just feel a lot more confident, you know that what you're doing is with passion. So, yeah, that's not too bad.
Stephanie:
Do you feel like showing more of that passion helps you when you make connections with people?
Sabrina:
Yes, because at the end of the day, I feel like there's people who do the same thing as us, but they're not really a family business, and there's a big difference. Like, the care isn't the same, andI see the struggle from the beginning. It's not easy, being in a farm and even just trying to get paperwork done, every little step takes a lot of time. And so talking to people, I feel like they can see how much I care and how much I've actually been doing. So there's no there's not many people in different steps as well.
Stephanie:
That's great. That's heartwarming to hear that people respond, because you would hope that's the case. But …
Sabrina:
I mean, there was, there has been some times, just in the beginning, but like I said, with time, confidence kicks in, and you just know, a little more of like, not everyone wants to hear the whole story, so you really have to think about what are the most important things to talk about…
Stephanie:
Right, like the cliff notes, version of your family story and your mission and all the things. The next question is, what are the key challenges you face related to gender or your age, and can you even separate them, or are they too closely tied?
Sabrina:
I think I can separate gender and age just because, with my gender, being a female, I feel like you get a little bit of a harder time in the farming side, way more than the importing side, there's a lot of women who are roasters, but there's not a lot of farmers who are women. Or just at least they expect you just because I'm David Rodriguez's daughter, like, “Oh, it's so easy,” but it's really not. And then with age, it's a little more like, okay,you need to study more. This is more something you have to work on yourself. And it comes with time, honestly and just learning experience, personal experiences.
Stephanie:
That was just something I was gonna ask about, the difference, your experience back in Guatemala, and how you engage and are treated or embraced in the coffee industry, versus what that looks like here in the US, when you're trying to make those connections.
Sabrina:
In Guatemala, it's a lot more like, I can say a little bit more traditional in a way...
Stephanie:
I think it's fair, yeah...
Sabrina:
It's great and everyone is welcoming, but you just feel like there's not been that big of a change yet there. So you just have to be a little more careful of what you're saying, I think. And then over here, it's just a lot more chill. I was born in the US too, so I feel like sometimes the way I like, see things in Guatemala as well, and I talk to people, they're like, “What? What are you talking about?” Like, “that's not, that's not normal here”, but it's normal here. So that's the difference between going back and forth.
Stephanie:
You have a lot of experience, kind of going back a lot, back in Guatemala. So would you say that's an added challenge, because not only are you entering into this coffee industry, but you're also navigating cultural differences and maybe even stuff that's passed down back there, that you maybe don't get the first-hand experience being from the United States, even though your family is all Guatemalan, and we still have some of that?
Sabrina:
Yes, there is a difference. There's like that “she's still an American girl, even if she was like her family was born and raised here.” That does have a challenge just because I feel like they don't feel that they should respect me as much. But I realized that you can't really please everyone for sure, and just being okay with not everyone agreeing with everything you do is okay. And even being a female over there, like me, being the one that represents my family was a big deal, just because they didn't think it was gonna be me. I'm the youngest one. And so even with family, they're a little shocked by it, but they understand that I was born and raised in the US and we are different in a way, like tradition is still huge over there. So when I go back, I feel like I do miss parts of something that happened at the farm, but I tried my best to catch up and even help around.
Stephanie:
What are some of the key challenges that your family has faced getting your farm up and running as a small business?
Sabrina:
So from the littlest one is like cars breaking down, yeah, all the time the wind in harvest season. Because not all harvest season is nice and beautiful. It can be raining and your car can get stuck. And then from the biggest challenge is just having to be able to fund the whole coffee business by a whole as a family, instead of having all those extra banks involved just trying to keep it as clean as possible. In a way, it's a big challenge because you don't want to keep on risking what you've already done as well. That's our hardest challenge, and we have been doing good on that, but just making sure that time is everything and just planning ahead is super important for the right challenges, too.
Stephanie:
I can imagine. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but to explain a little bit of the details with farming, you basically grow, pick, process, nurture, make this amazing coffee, and then bring it into the US, and then you start getting paid for it. So you're going through that whole process with other funds, either through loans, like you mentioned, if you're lucky enough to get them, or savings, or the previous year.
Sabrina:
Or even personal work, yeah…
Stephanie:
You have to supplement in other ways. And you're paying teams of people to help you pick and process and everything throughout that season. But you don't get paid any of it until you get into the US, and you get to the roasters, and the roasters actually pay you. So…
Sabrina:
…A lot of patience.
Stephanie:
Yeah! I mean, I share a lot of those challenges in a much smaller manner, just kind of managing inventory, but I can imagine on farm level, it's exponentially, much bigger as far as planning for dollars and where they go…
Sabrina:
And then, for us, even the people that work for us during the harvest season, we're so worried — we want to make sure everything's fine, that they're paid, getting paid well, that they're treated a lot and right. So we need to always have an extra and it could be hard sometimes, just because that is all personal, personal money that we're saving. But the outcome is so special to us, and even having our story out is very special as well. So yeah, we just hope that it gets easier with time.
Stephanie:
Yeah… I don't know if it does… I know people tell me, and on my side, that's always one of the hardest parts, kind of juggling…
Sabrina:
It is because you just don't know. You have good months, you have bad months. Same as roasters, I believe. And so sometimes I feel like some roasters think that we're okay all the time, but we're really not. We're really waiting for that harvest to come to the US, and that helps us with the farm, even for next harvest, to make sure that it has good quality as well.
Stephanie:
There's a lot of risk and everything as well. What do you think we as roasters, representing myself as a roaster, often get wrong when trying to convey farmer stories through our own marketing and then telling our customers your stories? And is there anything you wish or perceive that we should do better, or could do better?
Sabrina:
I think this is a little part of the question, that not all roasters are the same. So they're not all going to believe the same thing, but I think the hardest part is just understanding the harvest side. Unless you're really out in the farm picking in the sun, you'll really understand how hard it really is to get those special beans to you. And I feel like sometimes they're like, oh, it's easy. Like we it, it got here and now we're just gonna pay for it. But also, I think they should think a little more about how much time we have after the harvest. That is another way that we had to do, which not all of them think about before we get the coffee here.
Stephanie:
I personally find as I'm trying to build a brand around telling your stories, sharing your stories with my customers, and getting, finding ways to help my customers, customers understand the breadth of work that goes into one cup of coffee. Because definitely culturally in the United States and a lot of first world countries, we take it for granted. We are entitled our coffee every morning and expect it to basically be free, like water. But really, just to get help folks understand how much work goes into it, I definitely struggled with like, what stories are going to resonate? How often do I keep spouting the same things? Or is it more about one person's story? So I know, I’d love to collaborate and test out more things with me.
Sabrina:
You also don't know if, like, the same story is going to be okay, or when is it time to change? Right? What are you going to say to them? Because there's so many new things that are happening as well, not just like what happened to us a year ago happened this year. Something new happened.
Stephanie:
Right, it's hard.
Sabrina:
Maybe when harvest season is, we try to take as much videos as possible, but sometimes we can't really do all of that, just because it's…
Stephanie:
You're doing 100 other things…
Sabrina:
We're waking up at 4am. Yeah, I'm tired.
Sabrina:
There's nothing really bad about sharing the stories with the roasters, just because…
Stephanie:
You don't feel like anyone has sort of misrepresented what you guys kind of go through exactly.
Sabrina:
Oh, a little bit, yeah, for me… I think the only thing that I could say with what I think roasters often get wrong when trying to convey farmer stories, is that one importer is not going to have the same story as another importer, even if they kind of have the same background, it's just different, different communities. Even for Guatemala, there's different communities out there, and just the quality of life in some of them aren't the same as others. So I feel like some roasters think we're the same as other regions when it could be a little harder, sometimes just because we don't have that many people who are bigger in coffee in our community.
Stephanie:
So it's more like kind of, they lump everyone into one sort of story that they might want to tell, or think yeah represents all the farmers…
Sabrina:
Yeah. And it's, it's not the same, like maybe in my community, we show a little by just wearing more hats to more country style, which I've noticed in some other communities, they wear more like all white when they're have visitors around. So those are things that are little, but it's a difference for us in the communities when we go there and we're trying to show people like, what our agriculture is, right?
Stephanie:
The authenticity of what it's like, those details matter a lot when it comes down to your connections in those communities, so when a roaster kind of lump those into one, it just completely misses the mark.
Sabrina:
Yes, it does miss the mark, just because, like even for Guatemala, like our coffee, the traditional markings that when we went to go see in Antigua, like, there's different markings for each community.
Stephanie:
Yep.
Sabrina:
Every community is different. It's kind of like in the United States, every state is different, right? So we might be a little more country life. And so, for my community, it might not be so much women in coffee than others. And I think roasters don't really see that, because they just see how many women are in coffee in the whole country.
Stephanie:
Yeah, that's challenging. Do you find a lot of roasters ask you for information or stories or things?
Sabrina:
They ask me about stories, but I do think that they still kind of feel like it's the same as the other towns in Guatemala, but even like our little town, our Pueblo, is very different as well, and sometimes I just wish I could just take them and show them around, but it's also even hard to show them around because we're not as big in tourism as others.
Stephanie:
What is something that you would like consumers to know about the future of coffee?
Sabrina:
I think consumers, what I would like them to know is a little more of how coffee was traditionally, and how it's been changing throughout the years. Just like wine with fermentation, it's been a challenge, and I feel like they don't really see that, and it's important to show because if coffee does change, traditionally, there's an impact in many farms, not just one.
Stephanie:
Because you guys, or you guys farmers that share techniques and try to help each other improve and such, so that the whole everyone sort of evolves together.
Sabrina:
Yeah.
Stephanie:
That's neat… What would you like to see in the coffee industry in the future, as a young woman in coffee, from your perspective, where would you like our industry to be in 20 years?
Sabrina:
I would like to see more connections in other countries that grow coffee as well, in women, mostly, just because they're not all able to travel as well. So I think that's so important to even be able to FaceTime someone else and get a little bit more knowledge of new techniques. So I hope to see that in the future, and just maybe a little bit more tourism, like wineries. I think it is important to show kind of what the farm represents, and hopefully with that, you can tell your story a lot more.
Stephanie:
Do you feel — and I've only done a few farm tours — but do you feel like the farm tours are authentic in the sense that they're able to convey the realities of what's happening on the farm?
Sabrina:
No…
Stephanie:
Or, yeah, it's a dog and pony show, basically, where everyone puts on their best outfits and they give us roasters all the best food and show us the pristin, perfect time at the farm, no messes, no tragedies. But I'm wondering if we need to see more of the authentic side to have a better understanding and a better connection with what really goes on.
Sabrina:
I think with that, it’s just a little hard because even as a farmer you want to give so much attention to roasters but you can't when you’re at the farm. Because you have to do something else that is worrying you as well, and so it’s a little hard to see what we could do to change that. But yeah, seeing a coffee farm for three days compared to actually being there for a month, you can see a huge difference on how life is really like, and it's a little hard to even be able to do that in the future just because you want to make sure everyone is ok and they maybe won't like that long three hour hike you have to do, or maybe they won't like picking up things. They’re trying to have that vacation a little more.
Stephanie:
Yeah, how do you bridge that where you give that authentic representation, but you don’t necessarily throw us in the depths of it and make us figure out how to do all the stuff? I totally get it, it’s a fine line. I know my perception is of a lot of roasters do the pretty photo ops at the farm and they bring that back and they tout that, and that's how they sell their coffee and “Oh yeah, we have this great connection” but no, you didn’t really see what really happened and… How do you create space for both? That would be really interesting — I don’t have an answer, but thats the stuff I would like to see!
Sabrina:
I know, its a little hard just because there’s so many different farmers too, and different types of farms. I don’t think you are even able to see all the types, honestly.
Stephanie:
I bet there is a cultural aspect where it's like when you have guests in your home, you make sure you’re at your best… that's just what you're most comfortable with. Maybe in the U.S. we’re a little bit more lax on that.
Sabrina:
Yeah, I think so…
Stephanie:
So, I totally get it, that plays into it, but it also shields us from seeing some of the realities. Which is a disservice for us in the first world who want to have a better understanding of what’s going on. But I totally get that you don’t wanna show us all your dirty laundry.
Sabrina:
It might be hard for a lot of people from the U.S. too, because sometimes you’re gonna have to wash your clothes in the river.
Stephanie:
It might be hard, but hey, farming is hard, so I don’t think it should be perceived as easy.
Sabrina:
Yeah, but not everyone would be wanting to join that crowd.
Stephane:
Yeah, Not everyone agrees with me! I’ll be there!
Sabrina:
But it's exciting when we notice roasters actually wanting to see how we’re really like at the farm, just because it’s not an everyday thing you can see out here, too, and so you get to open your eyes. Tortillas with beans, and cheese, while you're running around. Those are DELICIOUS, yeah, they don’t taste the same like over here. It’s not the same as meals over here, too.
Stephanie:
Well, that was the last question. Any other things, or thoughts you want to throw out there?
Sabrina:
I just wanna say thank you, and I love how Swelter Coffee has always been so welcoming to women, just even seeing you put “Lilly coffee” ‘cause that's my mom, and it shows that you care…
Stephanie:
Well, great! Thank you!